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	<title>Comments on: What Price Head Protection?</title>
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	<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection</link>
	<description>Working to make cycling in the Ocean State safer and more enjoyable for YOU</description>
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		<title>By: Noman</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33552</link>
		<dc:creator>Noman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33552</guid>
		<description>No, the accident reports, if you read them, DO SAY head and neck trauma. 

If caring about users of streets makes me a loon, I&#039;m in rare company. Besmirching someone&#039;s reputation to obscure truth is called the straw man fallacy. So what does that make Bill Lewis: an underhanded industry plant who can be accused of libel? That&#039;s an easy reputation to uphold, but it might cost you in the long run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, the accident reports, if you read them, DO SAY head and neck trauma. </p>
<p>If caring about users of streets makes me a loon, I&#8217;m in rare company. Besmirching someone&#8217;s reputation to obscure truth is called the straw man fallacy. So what does that make Bill Lewis: an underhanded industry plant who can be accused of libel? That&#8217;s an easy reputation to uphold, but it might cost you in the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lewis</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33524</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33524</guid>
		<description>Sounds like Alan Barta to me. 
 First of all your 95% of all fatalities weren&#039;t  wearing helmets doesn&#039;t say that they all died from head trauma. I would say that they great majority died from massive internal and skeletal damage. It&#039;s very rare to to have just your head smashed and nothing else.
 Humans naturally protect their heads in falls, or did all those millions of horse riders that get thrown or fall off their mounts really have tri-cornered helmets on?
 Peloton crashes rarely cause head strike injuries at least the ones I&#039;ve seen and what does that have to do with riding in Rhode Island?
The site bikeforuns.net is a very large site with many sections of interest, to me it sounds like you don&#039;t know what yoou talking about because you haven&#039;t been there. There are many knowlegable people there in every area of bicycle culture not just advocacy. There are people who are the national names in  the press and writers, industry folks from companies big and small. It is not all a bunch of loons like you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like Alan Barta to me.<br />
 First of all your 95% of all fatalities weren&#8217;t  wearing helmets doesn&#8217;t say that they all died from head trauma. I would say that they great majority died from massive internal and skeletal damage. It&#8217;s very rare to to have just your head smashed and nothing else.<br />
 Humans naturally protect their heads in falls, or did all those millions of horse riders that get thrown or fall off their mounts really have tri-cornered helmets on?<br />
 Peloton crashes rarely cause head strike injuries at least the ones I&#8217;ve seen and what does that have to do with riding in Rhode Island?<br />
The site bikeforuns.net is a very large site with many sections of interest, to me it sounds like you don&#8217;t know what yoou talking about because you haven&#8217;t been there. There are many knowlegable people there in every area of bicycle culture not just advocacy. There are people who are the national names in  the press and writers, industry folks from companies big and small. It is not all a bunch of loons like you.</p>
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		<title>By: Noman</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33505</link>
		<dc:creator>Noman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 20:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33505</guid>
		<description>- Sending kids under 16 out without a helmet is illegal. It&#039;s also child abuse. 
- If you have loved ones who rely on you&#039;re staying alive, it is imprudent to leave for a ride without one.
- If you actually read accident reports, sure, collarbone breaks are a prevalent serious injury, one that helmets do nothing to avoid... or do they? You more apt to tuck and roll correctly if your noggin is protected. 
- Those 95% fatalities are almost all brain and spinal cord injuries among people who didn&#039;t wear helmets. 
- Bike forums are full of idiotic, uninformed opinions.
- I&#039;ve been hit by motor vehicles 4 times; each time they pushed me off-line, which, luckily, didn&#039;t result in a fall, but that&#039;s what usually happens. It isn&#039;t the collision so much as the fall. Fallen a half dozen times, mostly from poor road conditions, but a couple times from other cyclists. common to see scores of cyclists in eschelon go down after one in front loses control. 
- Hockey players used to play without helmets; football had flimsy leather ones... they outlawed it after many serious injuries. You know what cops call motorcyclists who don&#039;t wear helmets? Organ donors.
- As I said, you do what you like; we&#039;ll be kind and not say, &quot;I told him so&quot;, at your funeral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>- Sending kids under 16 out without a helmet is illegal. It&#8217;s also child abuse.<br />
- If you have loved ones who rely on you&#8217;re staying alive, it is imprudent to leave for a ride without one.<br />
- If you actually read accident reports, sure, collarbone breaks are a prevalent serious injury, one that helmets do nothing to avoid&#8230; or do they? You more apt to tuck and roll correctly if your noggin is protected.<br />
- Those 95% fatalities are almost all brain and spinal cord injuries among people who didn&#8217;t wear helmets.<br />
- Bike forums are full of idiotic, uninformed opinions.<br />
- I&#8217;ve been hit by motor vehicles 4 times; each time they pushed me off-line, which, luckily, didn&#8217;t result in a fall, but that&#8217;s what usually happens. It isn&#8217;t the collision so much as the fall. Fallen a half dozen times, mostly from poor road conditions, but a couple times from other cyclists. common to see scores of cyclists in eschelon go down after one in front loses control.<br />
- Hockey players used to play without helmets; football had flimsy leather ones&#8230; they outlawed it after many serious injuries. You know what cops call motorcyclists who don&#8217;t wear helmets? Organ donors.<br />
- As I said, you do what you like; we&#8217;ll be kind and not say, &#8220;I told him so&#8221;, at your funeral.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lewis</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33434</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33434</guid>
		<description>Reading about helmets and safety on Bikeforums.net has taught me a great deal. I do not nor will I wear a helmet outside of a skate park. I do own one for this purpose only, maybe down hill on a wooded trail.

 I try not to use statistics when I make my points and I don&#039;t have to use WIKI or Google as I have been reading this stuff for three years now.
If you get a sense of security from a helmet then wear it but don&#039;t inflate the real protection given by one.
 Do the research and you will see for yourselves. The most important thing is numbers. We must prove bike riding is an easy and inexpensive way to get around, and not this dangerous sport that requires hundreds of dollars in special gear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading about helmets and safety on Bikeforums.net has taught me a great deal. I do not nor will I wear a helmet outside of a skate park. I do own one for this purpose only, maybe down hill on a wooded trail.</p>
<p> I try not to use statistics when I make my points and I don&#8217;t have to use WIKI or Google as I have been reading this stuff for three years now.<br />
If you get a sense of security from a helmet then wear it but don&#8217;t inflate the real protection given by one.<br />
 Do the research and you will see for yourselves. The most important thing is numbers. We must prove bike riding is an easy and inexpensive way to get around, and not this dangerous sport that requires hundreds of dollars in special gear.</p>
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		<title>By: Durishin</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33429</link>
		<dc:creator>Durishin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33429</guid>
		<description>Un-lit cyclists at night...

There is a bit of a Darwinian effect in cycling, isn&#039;t there.

And, yes, both cyclists and drivers need to be educated.  More on that in a bit...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Un-lit cyclists at night&#8230;</p>
<p>There is a bit of a Darwinian effect in cycling, isn&#8217;t there.</p>
<p>And, yes, both cyclists and drivers need to be educated.  More on that in a bit&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33428</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33428</guid>
		<description>Ahhh... helmets.

If you look into the standardized testing for bicycle helmet you might find that the standard protection is from a 5 foot fall. That amounts to me falling over when I pull up to a stop sign. If you feel better wearing a helmet then do it. 

There are 3 kinds of lies:
1. Standard lies
2. Bald faced lies
3. Statistics

Citing things like &quot;95% who die are not wearing helmets&quot;, says very little to what caused the death. The 4 Driver vs Cyclist collisions that I&#039;ve been involved in in Providence have not killed me. Two caused significant injury (shoulder and wrist) but  when I&#039;m in a contest with a 2 ton hunk of metal I don&#039;t have faith that a helmet will save my life. Preparation has.

And I do see helmeted cyclists. about 50% that I see downtown are not wearing the helmet correctly, increasing their risk of injury. Many of these helmeted riders are riding against traffic. I ride at night and see very few bicyclists with lights.  So when people cite helmet safety in a conversation of cycling safety, along with the statistics, I&#039;m disappointed. 

Education might go a lot further toward saving lives than handing someone a helmet. Education for the Cyclist and Driver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh&#8230; helmets.</p>
<p>If you look into the standardized testing for bicycle helmet you might find that the standard protection is from a 5 foot fall. That amounts to me falling over when I pull up to a stop sign. If you feel better wearing a helmet then do it. </p>
<p>There are 3 kinds of lies:<br />
1. Standard lies<br />
2. Bald faced lies<br />
3. Statistics</p>
<p>Citing things like &#8220;95% who die are not wearing helmets&#8221;, says very little to what caused the death. The 4 Driver vs Cyclist collisions that I&#8217;ve been involved in in Providence have not killed me. Two caused significant injury (shoulder and wrist) but  when I&#8217;m in a contest with a 2 ton hunk of metal I don&#8217;t have faith that a helmet will save my life. Preparation has.</p>
<p>And I do see helmeted cyclists. about 50% that I see downtown are not wearing the helmet correctly, increasing their risk of injury. Many of these helmeted riders are riding against traffic. I ride at night and see very few bicyclists with lights.  So when people cite helmet safety in a conversation of cycling safety, along with the statistics, I&#8217;m disappointed. </p>
<p>Education might go a lot further toward saving lives than handing someone a helmet. Education for the Cyclist and Driver.</p>
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		<title>By: Noman</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33333</link>
		<dc:creator>Noman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33333</guid>
		<description>I ride in travel lane, where everyone belongs. Guess you just like sound of your own voice, because you&#039;d know that if you actually read anything. Did say hands, knees before head in a fall. Not talking JUST ABOUT FALLS, but all hazards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ride in travel lane, where everyone belongs. Guess you just like sound of your own voice, because you&#8217;d know that if you actually read anything. Did say hands, knees before head in a fall. Not talking JUST ABOUT FALLS, but all hazards.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lewis</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33093</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33093</guid>
		<description>I am so sorry to have come upon such bunch of poor cyclist that you fall so often.You poor dears should be wearing a lid in the shower.
 As for your female friend if I read this right she was too far to the right and most likely in the gutter and got squeezed (right hooked) this wouldn&#039;t have happened if she was farther in the lane and was paying more attention. By your discription of her injuries, she hit her mouth and just how did that helmet do? In fact over thirty percent  of hospital records of cyclist head trauma happen below where a helmet covers. Unless you wear a full face motorcycle helmet, but you sound like a spandex wearing weight weenie falling down with your 23 mm tires getting stuck in storm grates.
I tend to hold my position in traffic and take the lane. I am not prone to put myself where I can be right hooked. 

The only times I&#039;ve gone over the bars were in accidents with a car first time I was hit from behind and landed in grass on the side of Rt.114 in Middletown when I was 14. I went over the bars when a woman ran a red light, I slid over the hood I bumped my knee and elbow both times never hit my head. I guess I know better than to grab a handfull of front brake.
 
 The studies done after Australia enacted a manditory helmet law saw  ridership decline thirty to forty percent while there was not a corespondant decline in head injuries. There is also research from Vancouver Canada show similar result from their MHL. I think that getting people to ride with caution and following the rules of the road are better than making a big deal about an infinitly small chance ofdeath by head trauma when it&#039;s the vehicle that crushes your body.
 My goal is to show that we can use a bike just like everyone else in the non-english speaking world does. Without the hysteria and elitism of helmet nazis. The more of us  there are, the more drivers are used to bikes. Drivers actually give non helmeted riders more space when passing, look it up captain WIKI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so sorry to have come upon such bunch of poor cyclist that you fall so often.You poor dears should be wearing a lid in the shower.<br />
 As for your female friend if I read this right she was too far to the right and most likely in the gutter and got squeezed (right hooked) this wouldn&#8217;t have happened if she was farther in the lane and was paying more attention. By your discription of her injuries, she hit her mouth and just how did that helmet do? In fact over thirty percent  of hospital records of cyclist head trauma happen below where a helmet covers. Unless you wear a full face motorcycle helmet, but you sound like a spandex wearing weight weenie falling down with your 23 mm tires getting stuck in storm grates.<br />
I tend to hold my position in traffic and take the lane. I am not prone to put myself where I can be right hooked. </p>
<p>The only times I&#8217;ve gone over the bars were in accidents with a car first time I was hit from behind and landed in grass on the side of Rt.114 in Middletown when I was 14. I went over the bars when a woman ran a red light, I slid over the hood I bumped my knee and elbow both times never hit my head. I guess I know better than to grab a handfull of front brake.</p>
<p> The studies done after Australia enacted a manditory helmet law saw  ridership decline thirty to forty percent while there was not a corespondant decline in head injuries. There is also research from Vancouver Canada show similar result from their MHL. I think that getting people to ride with caution and following the rules of the road are better than making a big deal about an infinitly small chance ofdeath by head trauma when it&#8217;s the vehicle that crushes your body.<br />
 My goal is to show that we can use a bike just like everyone else in the non-english speaking world does. Without the hysteria and elitism of helmet nazis. The more of us  there are, the more drivers are used to bikes. Drivers actually give non helmeted riders more space when passing, look it up captain WIKI.</p>
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		<title>By: Noman</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33070</link>
		<dc:creator>Noman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33070</guid>
		<description>&quot;helmets are not as important for safe cycling as paying attention.&quot; You can&#039;t help but pay attention. Yeah, riding around with eyes closed is idiotic. But, after being pummeled by a baseball bat while riding and smashing several helmets in falls (both myself and others I know), we don&#039;t ride without. You can do as you&#039;d like. 

&quot;helmets can not protect you in any but dead stop falls like at a stop sign in cleats. There is also a risk of rotational injury to the spinal column due to the helmet dragging on the pavement.&quot; Specious twaddle. You&#039;ve never done an endo. You&#039;ve never seen any fatal accidents. I have.

&quot;Wherever a manditory helmet law has been enacted cycling numbers decline.&quot; So, you prioritize getting people to ride over them doing it safely? Neither is as important as keeping motorists from murdering innocents, which pales compared to spending trillions annually on criminal warfare worldwide. 

&quot;Millions of people ride millions of miles every day all over the world without a piece of foam strapped to their heads and don’t die.&quot; A billion people ride bicycles. It is the most popular form of transportation except walking. About 5,000 Americans die walking every year. Only about 700 bicyclists die. 41,000 motorists died last year in US, more than all bicyclists in 150 years. The worst part of motoring is the cancer and heart disease it directly causes, about 2 million/year. This carnage continues unabated. Nobody cares.
 
&quot;have never hit my head once.&quot; Lucky you. I know dozens of people who have. It is very common, although hands and knees usually hit first. A blow to the back of head may blind or kill you.

&quot;No protection in a collision with a motor vehicle.&quot; Almost all fatalities on bikes are in collisions with motor vehicles including all those 95% who die not wearing a helmet. Presumably, if they joined the rest who did, they might still be alive. Also, because riders sit higher than drivers, they might be hit in back of head by mirrors. And gutter runners are at risk of running into signs positioned for motorists.

&quot;brain hits the inside of the skull, ... keep you from a scalp wound or a bump on the noggin.&quot; Not true. Helmet foam is an effective crumple zone. They work.

&quot; bikeforums.net&quot; Please consult something forensic, i. e., The Only Good Bicyclist&quot;, http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/003Summer/goodcyclist.html
which shows, albeit a small sample, that motorists and poor urban planning are to blame in nearly 100% of incidents. Bicyclist opinions, as demonstrated by this website, are ignored and useless. Why bother?

&quot;peception of cycling as being a dangerous activity&quot;... It&#039;s the safest form of travel statistically, 3 sigma. No, what society needs to do is further restrict abusive motoring, which puts everyone - motorists and pedicyclists alike - at risk, and futile, wasteful spending, nearly a trillion/year, on motorways that has bankrupted country. Instead judges routinely let multiple DUI offenders off with warnings, or SUV criminals who actually kill cyclists off without even a hearing. According to existing policies, MOTORS RULE: everyone who gets in their way are dog meat.

On the other hand, the fewer the drivers, the worse the remainder drive. Studies overseas show that getting rid of traffic controls actually improves the way motorists react in the presence of pedicyclists. When in doubt, they slow down. At issue is mainly congested areas, although 4 out of 5 traffic accidents do occur on rural roads. Again speed and substance abuse account for 75% or more of accidents. Bicyclist inattention is such a small percentage as to be negligible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;helmets are not as important for safe cycling as paying attention.&#8221; You can&#8217;t help but pay attention. Yeah, riding around with eyes closed is idiotic. But, after being pummeled by a baseball bat while riding and smashing several helmets in falls (both myself and others I know), we don&#8217;t ride without. You can do as you&#8217;d like. </p>
<p>&#8220;helmets can not protect you in any but dead stop falls like at a stop sign in cleats. There is also a risk of rotational injury to the spinal column due to the helmet dragging on the pavement.&#8221; Specious twaddle. You&#8217;ve never done an endo. You&#8217;ve never seen any fatal accidents. I have.</p>
<p>&#8220;Wherever a manditory helmet law has been enacted cycling numbers decline.&#8221; So, you prioritize getting people to ride over them doing it safely? Neither is as important as keeping motorists from murdering innocents, which pales compared to spending trillions annually on criminal warfare worldwide. </p>
<p>&#8220;Millions of people ride millions of miles every day all over the world without a piece of foam strapped to their heads and don’t die.&#8221; A billion people ride bicycles. It is the most popular form of transportation except walking. About 5,000 Americans die walking every year. Only about 700 bicyclists die. 41,000 motorists died last year in US, more than all bicyclists in 150 years. The worst part of motoring is the cancer and heart disease it directly causes, about 2 million/year. This carnage continues unabated. Nobody cares.</p>
<p>&#8220;have never hit my head once.&#8221; Lucky you. I know dozens of people who have. It is very common, although hands and knees usually hit first. A blow to the back of head may blind or kill you.</p>
<p>&#8220;No protection in a collision with a motor vehicle.&#8221; Almost all fatalities on bikes are in collisions with motor vehicles including all those 95% who die not wearing a helmet. Presumably, if they joined the rest who did, they might still be alive. Also, because riders sit higher than drivers, they might be hit in back of head by mirrors. And gutter runners are at risk of running into signs positioned for motorists.</p>
<p>&#8220;brain hits the inside of the skull, &#8230; keep you from a scalp wound or a bump on the noggin.&#8221; Not true. Helmet foam is an effective crumple zone. They work.</p>
<p>&#8221; bikeforums.net&#8221; Please consult something forensic, i. e., The Only Good Bicyclist&#8221;, <a href="http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/003Summer/goodcyclist.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.transalt.org/files/newsroom/magazine/003Summer/goodcyclist.html</a><br />
which shows, albeit a small sample, that motorists and poor urban planning are to blame in nearly 100% of incidents. Bicyclist opinions, as demonstrated by this website, are ignored and useless. Why bother?</p>
<p>&#8220;peception of cycling as being a dangerous activity&#8221;&#8230; It&#8217;s the safest form of travel statistically, 3 sigma. No, what society needs to do is further restrict abusive motoring, which puts everyone &#8211; motorists and pedicyclists alike &#8211; at risk, and futile, wasteful spending, nearly a trillion/year, on motorways that has bankrupted country. Instead judges routinely let multiple DUI offenders off with warnings, or SUV criminals who actually kill cyclists off without even a hearing. According to existing policies, MOTORS RULE: everyone who gets in their way are dog meat.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the fewer the drivers, the worse the remainder drive. Studies overseas show that getting rid of traffic controls actually improves the way motorists react in the presence of pedicyclists. When in doubt, they slow down. At issue is mainly congested areas, although 4 out of 5 traffic accidents do occur on rural roads. Again speed and substance abuse account for 75% or more of accidents. Bicyclist inattention is such a small percentage as to be negligible.</p>
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		<title>By: Durishin</title>
		<link>http://ribike.org/2010/02/10/what-price-head-protection/comment-page-1#comment-33064</link>
		<dc:creator>Durishin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bikeprovidence.org/?p=1253#comment-33064</guid>
		<description>@ Bill Lewis,

Great comments here!

I agree with what you say about the need to promote cycling as safe and healthy.  That&#039;s why in our Cycle-for-Health classes we don&#039;t dwell on the accidents that can happen...because bad things can happen anywhere and at any time.

Truth is - obesity from inactivity kills far more Americans than bicycle accidents do...and the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association says that over 62 million Americans ride a bike at least 9x per year.

Perhaps all X-boxes should be mounted on moving treadmills.  Just think of the safety equipment you could mandate for that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Bill Lewis,</p>
<p>Great comments here!</p>
<p>I agree with what you say about the need to promote cycling as safe and healthy.  That&#8217;s why in our Cycle-for-Health classes we don&#8217;t dwell on the accidents that can happen&#8230;because bad things can happen anywhere and at any time.</p>
<p>Truth is &#8211; obesity from inactivity kills far more Americans than bicycle accidents do&#8230;and the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association says that over 62 million Americans ride a bike at least 9x per year.</p>
<p>Perhaps all X-boxes should be mounted on moving treadmills.  Just think of the safety equipment you could mandate for that!</p>
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